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Post by Mort on Nov 14, 2013 8:02:57 GMT
Whiteeagle, I am the guy you have beef with.
Let me be absolutely clear, Bolds were NEVER meant to farm. Ever. There is a plugin that monitors and controls players abilities to manipulate the world, and unfortunately it is having difficulty in enforcing certain aspects of the restrictions. We are attempting to fix it, but we have a large plugin load, so its the old addage of you fix something, something else breaks. It is taking time.
You say there's nothing but the mods word to stop you from farming, and that's true. Maybe you should listen as to why that's the case.
Now, when I say farm, I mean farming Wheat, Carrots, Potatoes. Agriculture is far more difficult than "dropping seeds in the ground" and bolds are frankly, too stupid and too easily distracted to cultivate crops. Thematically, given your race which is essentially a stone age hunter-gatherer society it makes no sense. However you ARE able to take advantage of melons and rudimentary livestock breeding. Pumpkins can be used to make jack o'lanterns and if you can convince someone to bake it for you, pumpkin pie. You are able to make mushroom soup, but not actively farm them.
Finally, the thing with the dock had nothing to do with bolds making a jetty. It had to do with the fact that you stacked stone over broken wooden blocks and there were no supports at all. The damn thing was structurally unsound and as a result sank- if other races have to justify their builds to the same scrutiny you can be damn sure you need to. moreso even if theres the possibility you could be crushed to death as a result. It wasn't the bold ST, it was me. I would have left a sign to explain, but at that point I was distracted by the fact the server decided to chuck a massive wobbly and needed to be restarted, that was my oversight.
I think you are perhaps taking things too much to heart as being an attack of you personally. This is not the case. I also think that what kind of character you want to explore as a kobold in this setting isn't meshing with the concept developed by the staff. Kobolds are a difficult race to play, they are designated monsters for a reason- you are weak, easily killed, have to live off of wits and extremely limited in what you can craft and achieve without theft- which is in and of itself difficult to achieve due to living on the outskirts of "civilised" lands. If you are trying to play a "jewbold" as you described, perhaps you'd be better off playing a Dwarven Goldsmith or a Human Banker?
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terb
Kobold
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Post by terb on Nov 14, 2013 18:16:00 GMT
The fences were my fault, due to a bit of misinterpreting lore or something. At least I know not to make those again.
Maybe a list of what proper koboldly things are and aren't allowed could be posted in the race forum?
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Post by pliantreality on Nov 14, 2013 20:43:14 GMT
I'm not too sure about the current crafting restrictions on the server. While they are intended to support an atmosphere of fluff and enforce basic adherence to your race's disposition, I don't think its working well.
I, personally, am frustrated by my inability to make compasses and therefore make a map. Its stalled my in-character project to document the fort and its surrounding area.
The position I would take is no mechanical impediments to certain technologies, but simply common sense by the Storytellers in charge of each respective race. Are the humans building an obsidian-farm? Yeah, probably no. Are the kobolds making aqueducts? I think not. Are the dorfs growing wheat underground? Tut-tut. Elves with a massive iron foundry? As if.
Problems might arise. But it would be a working foundation that could inform a more nuanced set of restrictions to crafting.
Edit: I think a racial build guide here on the forums might go far.
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Post by Gargan - Human ST on Nov 15, 2013 2:05:59 GMT
I'm not too sure about the current crafting restrictions on the server. While they are intended to support an atmosphere of fluff and enforce basic adherence to your race's disposition, I don't think its working well. I, personally, am frustrated by my inability to make compasses and therefore make a map. Its stalled my in-character project to document the fort and its surrounding area. The position I would take is no mechanical impediments to certain technologies, but simply common sense by the Storytellers in charge of each respective race. Are the humans building an obsidian-farm? Yeah, probably no. Are the kobolds making aqueducts? I think not. Are the dorfs growing wheat underground? Tut-tut. Elves with a massive iron foundry? As if. Problems might arise. But it would be a working foundation that could inform a more nuanced set of restrictions to crafting. Edit: I think a racial build guide here on the forums might go far. We are currently fixing some problems with no-item, compasses will soon not be race restricted, we are sorry for the temporary inconvenience. On the reason why we are using server mechanics to prevent certain crafting recipes is that so often something is missed out on a list of what a race can craft, or misinformation is spread. The mechanics allow for a simple way of finding out if a race is allowed to craft an item, by attempting it. As far as buildings, we already try to let players know when they are building something that is beyond the realms of what makes sense for their racial tech level and thematic concept but I like your idea of a racial build guide on the forum, I shall attempt such a thing once I have some free time after compiling a list of what plugins we use. If someone would like to attempt such a thing for their own race that would be greatly appreciated. |
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venusorrels
Kobold
From Central Time Zone (-6 GMT)
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Post by venusorrels on Nov 15, 2013 2:46:23 GMT
I've had no problem with the Kobolds. I've never died (once to zombies), and never had food problems. I've explored TWO fully zoomed out maps for us and made two additional livestock pens. One being a pig stable and the other being a cuddle pit with sheep. The ONLY issue I have is that of compasses, which is being rectified as I type this. Travel has only been a problem for me at the beginning and that was due to being unfamiliar with the terrain. I now know how to go to both the dwarves and humans in a relatively short time. All-in-all I think you mods are doing terrific. Keep up the good work.
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Post by whiteagle on Nov 15, 2013 7:15:18 GMT
You say there's nothing but the mods word to stop you from farming, and that's true. Maybe you should listen as to why that's the case. Now, when I say farm, I mean farming Wheat, Carrots, Potatoes. Agriculture is far more difficult than "dropping seeds in the ground" and bolds are frankly, too stupid and too easily distracted to cultivate crops. Thematically, given your race which is essentially a stone age hunter-gatherer society it makes no sense. It makes perfect sense, stone age Hunter-gatherer's were the ones to DISCOVER agriculture in the first place... And yeah, there really ISN'T much more to basic agriculture than dropping seeds into the ground, especially in Minecraft where all you have are seeds and Crop. If you don't want us putting seeds in the ground, put a crafting restriction on Hoes! Then we won't be ABLE to do it, because we won't be able to till the soil to plant in. To paraphase someone I was talking to when I was discussing with her how frustrating this issue was, "Kain EVOVLED!" However you ARE able to take advantage of melons and rudimentary livestock breeding. Pumpkins can be used to make jack o'lanterns and if you can convince someone to bake it for you, pumpkin pie. You are able to make mushroom soup, but not actively farm them. Wow, you really DON'T know how broke your "godly" plug-ins are, do you? We can plant mushrooms too, so now you are telling me we can't even do that? Are we not suppose to plant tree saplings as well? Finally, the thing with the dock had nothing to do with bolds making a jetty. It had to do with the fact that you stacked stone over broken wooden blocks and there were no supports at all. The damn thing was structurally unsound and as a result sank- if other races have to justify their builds to the same scrutiny you can be damn sure you need to. moreso even if theres the possibility you could be crushed to death as a result. It wasn't the bold ST, it was me. I would have left a sign to explain, but at that point I was distracted by the fact the server decided to chuck a massive wobbly and needed to be restarted, that was my oversight. Oh, we have BUILDING Codes now? Jee, if only there were some mention of that in the several tons of books you dropped on us at character creation... I think you are perhaps taking things too much to heart as being an attack of you personally. This is not the case. Of COURSE I am, you spend several dozen hours working on something only to have someone come and say "Nope..." I also think that what kind of character you want to explore as a kobold in this setting isn't meshing with the concept developed by the staff. Kobolds are a difficult race to play, they are designated monsters for a reason- you are weak, easily killed, have to live off of wits and extremely limited in what you can craft and achieve without theft- which is in and of itself difficult to achieve due to living on the outskirts of "civilised" lands. If you are trying to play a "jewbold" as you described, perhaps you'd be better off playing a Dwarven Goldsmith or a Human Banker? ...Why in the hell are Kobold's even a Player Race then? Seriously, you'd have more inter-race tension with just Dorf, Elves, and Humans! You expect Kobold Players to basically BE the only antagonist force in the world, for them to do this with minimum resources, and the ONLY reward they get is to be a pain in the ass for the other three races! All this, after spending good chunks of an hour JUST TO FUCKING GET THERE, and most likely end up getting KILLED because of it. Maybe instead of tricking rubes into being moving Targets for the other three, just use your vaunted Plug-ins to make them NPCs… The position I would take is no mechanical impediments to certain technologies, but simply common sense by the Storytellers in charge of each respective race. Are the humans building an obsidian-farm? Yeah, probably no. Are the kobolds making aqueducts? I think not. Are the dorfs growing wheat underground? Tut-tut. Elves with a massive iron foundry? As if. Problems might arise. But it would be a working foundation that could inform a more nuanced set of restrictions to crafting. Edit: I think a racial build guide here on the forums might go far. The crafting restrictions aren't really that bad, but it's the reliance on plug-ins to prevent certain race actions that's causing things to break down... For instance, Kobolds planting seed... If they can make hoes, why can't they till dirt and plant things in the ground? This is why the farming thing pisses me off so much, we were NOT planting forty acers of Wheat, just a little garden on the shores of our pre-existing bodies of water... And the ONLY gardens that get mysteriously droughted to death are the ones on the Warren, I've got SEVERAL of them going in secret locations that have escaped the Mods wrath because they can't be found... Thing is, we didn't have a HUGE wheat farm like the Humans, just a little to breed more cows for steak and leather, which are some of the few resources we CAN make use of. But No, we're suppose to steal everything from everybody else, even though the humans can't even get animal husbandry right. And that’s another thing, HUMANS already have a building guide in their race book… |
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Post by Gargan - Human ST on Nov 15, 2013 9:42:27 GMT
Kain, to answer your complaints, I apologize for the problems with our restrictions plugin currently, you should not be able to use wheat because of the fact that players never only plant a few seeds, we usually end up with hidden underground farms and I am *extremely* displeased to hear that this is what you have been doing rather than trying to talk to me in a calm and sensible manner. Being the one that built them, I can tell you that the sub-purpose of the human farms is a source for kobolds to steal from, as kobolds are a monster race and designed to have to scavenge to survive, this does indeed involve travel and risk, but that is all part of how they are designed.
Kobolds are allowed to plant Melons and Pumpkins, as these things do not require as much input to grow as wheat, you cannot plant mushroom, but you can let existing sources grow out, and when we have time as STs, we regrow plants and have forests spread.
Every races buildings must adhere to common sense even if minecraft cannot accurately imitate real life physics, for example the dwarven halls must have supports, and human boats must not have holes in the hull. If you desire a building guide for the kobolds then I shall ask that the kobold ST try and produce such a thing, that seems a perfectly reasonable request.
We apologies for the number of books you receive at character gen, we have attempted to slim them down but as you are aware some things are still missing. I feel you disagree with the thematic concept we are using for kobolds, which is of them being a monster race, they are antagonistic, they are difficult, and they die often. Kobolds are hard to play, but that makes small victories sweeter, if that concept is not what you are looking for then I apologize. We do not expect kobolds to be the only antagonistic force in the world, nor are they, many other races are pursuing their own interests, I believe you may need to calm down and look at the world as a whole a little, perhaps try taking a break from kobold and experiencing different aspects of the server and the play-styles of the races.
To answer your question on why kobolds can craft hoes, it is because minecraft requires that you till the earth to plant a Melon or Pumpkin seed, that is all.
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Post by whiteagle on Nov 15, 2013 13:12:38 GMT
Being the one that built them, I can tell you that the sub-purpose of the human farms is a source for kobolds to steal from, as kobolds are a monster race and designed to have to scavenge to survive, this does indeed involve travel and risk, but that is all part of how they are designed. I feel you disagree with the thematic concept we are using for kobolds, which is of them being a monster race, they are antagonistic, they are difficult, and they die often. Kobolds are hard to play, but that makes small victories sweeter, if that concept is not what you are looking for then I apologize. Except you don't realize your "Thematic Concept" is a stupid, irritating style of play that offers NO reward whatsoever, and outright encourages the other races to kill Kobolds on sight. Really I'm left asking myself, "Why would anyone want to play a character that has to walk DAYS south to STEAL food and supplies?" Especially when this will just lead to an extermination order on the race as a whole... You going to restart the world AGAIN when another race floods the Kobold spawn point? Kobolds are allowed to plant Melons and Pumpkins, as these things do not require as much input to grow as wheat, you cannot plant mushroom, but you can let existing sources grow out, and when we have time as STs, we regrow plants and have forests spread. So we can't even plant mushrooms, meaning we can't establish a stable food supply and, thus, can't build Warrens ANYWHERE else... Again, why should ANYONE play something that just exist to be a MOB to exterminate?!?! |
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Post by pliantreality on Nov 15, 2013 13:26:41 GMT
All my concerns have been addressed, Gargan, thank you for your patience.
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terb
Kobold
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Post by terb on Nov 15, 2013 15:12:28 GMT
I'm not too enthusiastic either about having to make an hour long hike and needing to pack food just to have 5-10 minutes (if that) to swipe a dozen or so tiles of carrots/potatoes and -maybe- see about raiding a house before panicking about humans/elves finding me and booking it.
I suppose that could be fixed a bit with some kind of 'sub-warren' or something that you can get directions to and can move around. But perhaps it's more a question of just how stupid do kobolds have to be more than anything?
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Post by Gargan - Human ST on Nov 15, 2013 19:32:38 GMT
Being the one that built them, I can tell you that the sub-purpose of the human farms is a source for kobolds to steal from, as kobolds are a monster race and designed to have to scavenge to survive, this does indeed involve travel and risk, but that is all part of how they are designed. I feel you disagree with the thematic concept we are using for kobolds, which is of them being a monster race, they are antagonistic, they are difficult, and they die often. Kobolds are hard to play, but that makes small victories sweeter, if that concept is not what you are looking for then I apologize. Except you don't realize your "Thematic Concept" is a stupid, irritating style of play that offers NO reward whatsoever, and outright encourages the other races to kill Kobolds on sight. Really I'm left asking myself, "Why would anyone want to play a character that has to walk DAYS south to STEAL food and supplies?" Especially when this will just lead to an extermination order on the race as a whole... You going to restart the world AGAIN when another race floods the Kobold spawn point? Kobolds are allowed to plant Melons and Pumpkins, as these things do not require as much input to grow as wheat, you cannot plant mushroom, but you can let existing sources grow out, and when we have time as STs, we regrow plants and have forests spread. So we can't even plant mushrooms, meaning we can't establish a stable food supply and, thus, can't build Warrens ANYWHERE else... Again, why should ANYONE play something that just exist to be a MOB to exterminate?!?! The thematic concept has been largely the same for this servers duration, kobolds are hardmode, they are difficult, they are frustrating, and they are geared towards people that engage in punishing gameplay, much like that in DF. I have found few players that kill kobolds on sight, only one particular murderelf has been going around simply killing. There are elves attempting to shelter kobolds, Humans, mine included, hire kobolds and dwarves have been content to simply leave them or use them as scouts. Personally I have never been inclined to play a kobold for long, but there are many that do, because they enjoy that type of punishing gameplay, they play this because it makes the small victories larger. You can carry food sources with you and make them renewable, such as melons or animals, chickens in particular. I agree that mushrooms should be plantable and rest assured I shall be using what pull I have to try and convince those who decide the restriction that they should be allowed. Warrens are easy to set up in new locations, myself and others have done so countless times in editions of the world where the restrictions were even more severe. Where kobolds could not even dig through stone. However, your complaint that the travel time is too long is a problem, and to me the easy solution that presents itself is to allow migration of the warren as a group, so that you can move yourselves to a more preferential position. If this was to be okayed by the Kobold ST and the Admins, then we could move the spawn point to the new location, would that be acceptable? |
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terb
Kobold
Posts: 0
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Post by terb on Nov 17, 2013 21:59:53 GMT
So, moving away from kobolds for a while, I wonder how the idea of animation/model mods like this would strike you guys? Not too big a fan of some of the models, but the dwarf one, the speech bubble part, and especially a few of the animation bits (like sitting and waving) seem like they could work. |
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Post by Mortifus on Nov 18, 2013 5:10:30 GMT
Requires us to have you guys mod the client. We avoid this because most players are lazy.
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terb
Kobold
Posts: 0
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Post by terb on Nov 18, 2013 6:28:05 GMT
I suppose that'd be true enough.
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